·
In January or February,
1973 Fritsche was approached by Bill Surette, his boss, who had in turn been
approached by Seeburg (or an agent representing Seeburg). Surette wanted
Fritsche to arrange a meeting in Ft. Wayne (Magnavox HQ) with someone from Seeburg to review a Pong game that
Seeburg had shipped to Magnavox (I believe this was an Atari Pong unit - if it was January or February, 1973, it would almost have to have been)
·
On March 13, 1973
Fritsche wrote a letter to Magnavox’s engineering, design, and financial people
asking for help in an analysis of Magnavox producing a coin-operated video game
for Seeburg.
·
The meeting (which I
think occurred earlier) was held in the Odyssey engineering lab. Fritsche and
Dick Waring (head of the Odyssey engineering group) attended along with one
person from Seeburg.
·
During the meeting, the
Seeburg rep pointed out that the Pong game, which made by “an outfit…out in
California” was totally “inadequate for the market”, noting how easily it could
be jimmied, how it posed safety hazards, it had no kickplate on the front, it
had a pie tin for a coin box etc.
·
Seeburg was aware of
the Odyssey patents and that Magnavox was a quality manufacturer and wanted
them to make a quality version of Pong.
·
Seeburg also asked
Magnavox to look at the other Odyssey games and see if any could be adapted for
coin-op play.
·
For the Pong game, in
terms of gameplay, Seeburg essentially wanted an exact clone of Pong (they
liked the fact that it was easy to understand and required few instructions).
·
After the meeting,
Fritsche gathered information and had another meeting (prior to March 13) in
Fort Wayne with three people from Seeburg and Williams Electronics.
·
During this meeting,
the Williams people explained that they felt the video game market had a lot of
potential and they were willing to back up their commitment to Magnavox with an
order of around 1,000 or 2,000 units.
·
Fritsche replied that
they would need a minimum commitment of 5,000 units and after that, Magnavox
had no further contact with Seeburg or Williams.
So it appears that nothing ever came of
the negotiations between Seeburg/Williams and Magnavox. Nonetheless, around
May, Williams did produce its first video game – a Pong clone called Paddle Ball.
The
Origins of Paddle Ball
Notice the logo at the bottom of the
page – Magnetic Corporation of America. Who are they and could they have designed
Paddle Ball? As it turns out, the company did in act produce at least one video
game of its own. Here is an ad from the June, 1975 issue of Play Meter.
Note well that address: 179 Bear Hill
Road, Waltham, MA.
Over the years, a few boards have turned
up for this game, but little other info is known.
The only other reference I found to the
company in trade publications is this mention from the want ads section of the
June 20, 1977 issue of Play Meter.
So it looks like MCOA MAY have made at
least one non-Pong game, though this isn’t certain given that the source is a
want ad (for a used game?) and may have gotten their info wrong. Note that the 215 area code is in the
Philadelphia area.
One of the few other video-game related
references to MCOA is this list
of Kurz-Kasch Test Fixture boards, which lists a game called Electromotion
by “Magnetic Corp”. The only Electromotion I know of it’s the one made by the
company the same name, which was located in the Philadelphia area.
·
The
company appears to have been started by MIT student
Theo de Winter. “At one point
[MCOA] had 200 employees, developing superconductors for the then-new MRI
industry.” De Winter later sold the company to Johnson & Johnson.
·
If
you do a Google search for “179 Bear Hill Road” and Magnetic, you will find several
reference to the company relating to its work on superconducting magnets used
in MRIs, research for maglev trains, work they did for Los Alamos National Lab, contracts they had with the
Air Force and Department of Energy and more.
·
A
company named “Magnetic Corporation of America” existed at least as
early as 1949 , though I don’t know if it was the same company.
·
In
1956, there was a company called Magnetic Corporation of America, which Billboard
described as “an operating company whose holdings range from the electronics
field to real estate”
·
If
you do a Google book search, you will find several more references to Magnetic Corporation
of America in Waltham, MA
Q Did Magnavox ever consider
manufacturing a coin-operated TV game?
A Yes, they did?
Q And how did that come about, or how
did that condition arise?
Q That’s Plaintiff’s Exhibit 10?
A Right. That was in our engineering lab
and was the product that we used to form our initial discussions with Seeburg,
and this was -- I could be wrong on the month -- but it was January or
February, 1973.
Q Mr. Fritsche, please refer to
Plaintiff’s Exhibits 97-L and 97-M , and see if that refreshes your
recollection as to the date or the approximate date.
A Well, as I say, the first document,
97-L, after reading it, I am familiar with the circumstances. I was not
familiar with this letter, which my observation is it comes from a finder who
has some correspondence with Magnavox, and I suspect this is how Bill Surette
became aware of the potential arrangement that could be made .the potential
arrangement that could be made
Q Now, you indicated that Seeburg
shipped a Pong game to Magnavox in Fort Wayne?
A Yes
Q Now, when did that occur in the total
relationship with between Magnavox and Seeburg? A It had to -- we received that
game in January or February, 1973, because I wrote a letter on March 13, 1973
to our engineering, our design, and our financial people in Magnavox, asking
them to assist me in an analysis of Magnavox producing a coin-operated video
game for Seeburg, and that's the substance of the letter which is Exhibit 97-M.
Q And I think you said that after
Magnavox received the pong game from Seeburg, representatives of Seeburg came
to Fort Wayne for a meeting that you attended?
A Yes, yes. They used this game as their
talking piece, to explain, first of all, who Seeburg was, how they were
positioned in their industry, and they felt -- they characterized themselves
THE COURT: Let's have a few more details on
this conversation, who was there, and who was doing the talking.
BY MR. ANDERSON: Q All right. Was this
the first meeting when these people came to Magnavox that you –
A It was the first meeting that I was
aware of. There could possibly have been another meeting with Bill Surette in
New York that I would not be aware of, and I don't recall one happening. I believe
this meeting that I had was the first one, and I was there, Dick Waring, who
was the head of the engineering group for Odyssey was there, and I do not
recall the gentleman's name from Seeburg, I just I don't recall what his name
was
Q Was there only one gentleman from
Seeburg
A Yes
Q Or more than one?
A Just one.
Q And at the time of that meeting in Fort Wayne, attended by the gentleman from Seeburg, was the pong game in Fort Wayne?
A Yes, it was, it was in the engineering
lab, the meeting was held in the engineering lab for Odyssey, and, as I say, it
was used as the talking piece by the Seeburg representative.
Q All right, and then, if you can,
relate, in as much detail as you presently can, the entire events of that
meeting, in other words, how it started, and who said what to whom, and how it
ended?
A Well, primarily, it was a Seeburg
representative saying to us -- he was positioning himself, and positioning
Seeburg, as to who they were, where they stood in their business, and also· the
fact that the reason they were coming to Magnavox was that this game was by an
outfit -- or a company out in California, had just entered the marketplace, it
was a very, very poor, crude example of a product that would be insufficient in
the coin-operated market, and it was totally inadequate for the market, and he
commenced to explain why, how the construction is not adequate, etc., etc. We
went through all the details how it could be jimmied, the back could be taken
off, the safety hazards, and all the parameters that that product -- it looked
pretty to us, but to him, he tore it to ribbons. He also indicated at the time
that the reason he was at Magnavox was, one, Seeburg was aware of some patents
that surrounded Odyssey, and that Magnavox was the exclusive licensee for them.
Secondly, he told me that he knows Magnavox and Seeburg's position was -- his
position was that Magnavox is a quality manufacturer of TV, stereos, etc., that
they have been known in the industry to product quality, furniture pieces out of
wood. Therefore, he concluded that if we can make
quality products, and we are a quality house, that we can make a quality
cabinet for a video game because we also make the video games.
Therefore, he was asking for us to consider how we could make a video game like
this one for Seeburg. He expressed concern, as I had concern all along,
eventually, as the coin-operated games grew, in the direction that they were
going. It's a virgin territory, it's a virgin product, and it needed to have a
little protection around it. A lot of people, in trying to gain as much money
today out of it, in my opinion, can jeopardize the future of the product, and
one of the things Magnavox was trying to do was trying to insure and instill
some discipline in product development that would help insure the natural
future growth of video gaming.
Q All right, now, you have indicated
that he explained that they wanted a game like pong, but that the particular
physical construction had drawbacks and insufficiencies, is that correct?
A Yes.
MR. GOLDENBERG: Excuse me.
THE COURT: Mr. Goldenberg?
MR. GOLDENBERG: I object to that. I
don't believe that the witness testified as Mr. Anderson characterized, that
they wanted a game like pong. If he said that, I missed it, and I withdraw the
objection, but
THE COURT: Well, I will sustain the
objection, and perhaps you can rephrase your question.
BY MR. ANDERSON: Q Mr. Fritsche, you
have indicated Seeburg sent this pong game, Plaintiffs' Exhibit 10, or a game just
like that, down to Magnavox, is that correct?
A That's right.
Q And you explained that this gentleman
from Seeburg why he was pointing out the deficiencies to you?
A Yes.
Q Will you explain that?
A He sent the game down because he
wanted us to see precisely what was on the market. Visually, he wanted what's
right there.
Q When you say "visually" –
A I mean visually in every respect, the
wood cabinet and the electronics, the way it worked, the game it played However,
he qualified all of those by saying that cabinet in no way meets the quality
standards of Seeburg. It must have a kickplate on the front. This does not.
Visually, it looks like a game that they would-they could put out. Maybe I am
characterizing their quality image for them, but all he was saying is I want a
product that's like that, but there are certain things you have to do. You have
to put quarter rounds on the back so the man who hauls
this to the bowling alley or bar or airport can slide it in and out of his
station wagon, because that's how he hauls it to that location
Q Now, one of the things you said he
said he wanted was a game that had the same play. Now, did you discuss exactly
what that meant, and, if so, what was that?
A Yes, very definitely. It's the tennis
game, the two players with the ball.
Q And after he had explained that much,
then what happened next during that meeting?
A He discussed the nitty grittys of the
product and the kinds of changes he felt were necessary to be incorporated that
we would have to consider in our proposal back to them in terms of the quality
of the product, the quality and the appearance of the final cabinet and of tre
electronics of the game. He also suggested at that time that we ought to be
looking at games -- some of the other Odyssey games that already existed in our
Model lTL 200, could they, indeed, be adapted for coin-operated play, and he
set out some parameters that they had to play from start to conclusion in one
and a half to two minutes maximum, because the whole concept of that product is
a quarter as quickly as you can get a quarter~,so,
therefore,
the games cannot be protracted as the Odyssey games were that we were selling
as a home game. Two different concepts totally.
THE COURT: Did he have any adverse
criticism of the electronics of the Pong machine as opposed to the cosmetic
features of it?
THE WITNESS: Electronics, yes. When he
took the back off, a lot of exposed -- in this product, there were a lot of
exposed electronics that he felt access from the outside was too easy, somebody
could get back inside it, could get hurt on it. It was not constructed well
inside to catch the money. They had a little pie tin that you can buy in a 5
and 10 store, instead of a coin box that Seeburg and others are used to installing
on their products
THE COURT: What about the circuitry?
THE WITNESS: The circuitry -- I don’t
believe, my recollection says, that they knew that much about it. It looked
huge to them. The circuitry had some parts missing, and this, that and the
other. I don't recall, Judge, that he had really any -- could get very specific
about the electronics, because I don't think he was electronically qualified. I
think he left that to Magnavox, because -- just his own admission that,
"You guys originated it, you guys are electronics engineers, this is
TV-oriented, video-oriented, you know, you will ~''have
to show me what it can or can' t do."
BY
MR. ANDERSON: Q Insofar as the electronics and how they just work to play the
game, did he discuss that aspect of the electronics as it related to playing
the game?
A
Yes, he wanted the same game that he saw played here, and that's a tennis game.
One knob. It has to be very, very brief, very quick. Instructions have to be
very, very quick for the game. 70 per cent of it has to be observed as you drop
the quarter in as to what it is you have to do, so that you don't have to sit
there and, while the game is running, start thinking about how do I play this
game now, and when I turn this knob, it does this, that or the other. He felt
versus our home game, where we have several controls to manipulate, each
player, he was satisfied with one control for the player, which was just a
vertical movement, couldn't complicate the game, because it had to be completed
within two minutes of play.
Q
All right, and then what happened? Was there any more conversation that you can
now recall at that meeting, and how did it end?
A
Well, it ended that we would examine all of the specifications that he left
with us, and all those
were verbal, examine all the specifications. We would examine internally our
capability to do it, which I felt certain we could, and we would come back to
him with a proposal. The Exhibit 97-M, as I indicated previously, was my letter
to the head of the video engineering department at Magnavox. It was to Whitey
Welbaum, who is the head of the industrial design
department, and Homer Haag; who was in charge of the financial costing for all
products, and I was asking them, through the course of this letter, I was
laying out the parameters that we had received during our discussions with
Seeburg, how we could put the product together I needed to determine a cost or
course, prior to him coming in, just examining the
Pong, we tried to duplicate that in our own minds. If I put in the same kind of
TV that is there out of Magnavox' stock, what would it cost me? If we made a
cabinet such as that, and they were quick and dirty costs, and we wanted to
clean those up. We wanted to get more specific, more detailed, because in a
company such as Magnavox, the size they were, $300 million sales, you have to
prove your point before the company is going to invest any risk capital. You
have to prove that you can return some money, and this letter was to try to
document our capability to return a profit to the company.
Q Then what happened after the meeting?
Were there any further meetings that you know of between Seeburg and Magnavox?
A Yes. I had a meeting following that in
New York with Bill Surette in the offices of Seeburg, where we again discussed
this potential program in generalities. It was at that meeting that it was
suggested that we meet with the operation type people of Seeburg, who were in a
subsidiary company of theirs, and I don't know quite the organizational
structure they had, but it is Williams Electric, I believe, in Chicago. Three
of their people came to Fort Wayne following our New York meeting, and we sat a~ a
table in our demonstration room. It was the three people from Seeburg-Williams
Electric, myself and our engineer with our own verbal results of this proposal,
which is embodied in this letter of March 13th, discussing the kinds of games
that they felt they had to have, and it was at that time I was trying to
determine, "Now that we know how many we can produce and
what it is going to cost us, what is Williams' or Seeburg's willingness to
commit to the product?" That is when it was explained to me that in the
video game market, for any new game that comes on the market, there is a market
potential of about 30,000 units. The first company to introduce a specific type
of game can generally garner, oh, 8,000 to 12,000 of that total 30,000
capability. The rest, because of the typical structure of that coin-operated
business, it is such that there are a lot of copiers, and the copiers will be
out there just as quickly with their new games. Most of that was talked about
in the frame of reference of pinball games, where they are basically all the
same. The game format changes a little bit, but it is still basically a pinball
game The video games represented an area that Williams Electric people had
indicated they thought had a significant amount of potential for the future,
but that it had to be structured properly, and I wholeheartedly agreed with
that, in terms of the kinds of games that would be played on it, the way in
which they were produced, and the way in which they could be sold to their
distribution to get them marketed out into the various locations where they are
used. At that time was when they indicated to me their willingness to back up
commitment to Magnavox with like 1,000 to 2,000 units, which just is not
satisfactory at all. It is just simply not satisfactory for us to take some of
our facilities at Magnavox, redirect them from mainline products to a secondary
product venture -- at that time -- for which we didn’t feel Magnavox, nor
Seeburg, nor any of the other people who were starting to enter the market at
that time, were giving the proper front end marketing planning and strategy to
developing the products for the marketplace
THE WITNESS: One thousand to two
thousand is about all we got in the way of a commitment.
BY MR. ANDERSON: Q Did Magnavox at that
meeting or at any other time indicate to Seeburg what Magnavox considered to be
a minimum quantity to justify going into this?
A Yes. I did at that meeting. And I said
5,000 units were a minimum. I think I was probably skating a little bit, also,
in that I think my superiors probably would have liked 8,000 units.
Q What happened at that meeting after
that? Is there anything else that you can recall?
A I don't recall the specifics, but
after that I had no more further contact with Seeburg, nor with Williams, and
subsequently negotiations just dissolved. No more contacts were had between the
two companies to my knowledge.
Q Do you know whether Seeburg after that
did come out with a video or TV game? A Yes. They did.
Q Do you know whether it was the tennis
game or some other game they came out with?
A I believe it was the tennis
game. It wasn't quite like this (indicating), because I think it was a
four-player unit, which is simply two players on either side. It is four of
those controls instead of two.
